Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Ratting Carriers and Why They Are Banned In Providence


CVA doesn't have very many rules when it comes to making money or extracting resources from providence.  We are generally pretty open to letting people come in and do what they will as long as they don't bother anyone else.  One exception that we enforce however is a ban on the use of capitals when it comes to ratting in belts or anomalies.

This rule has created a large amount of debate and even some resentment among Providence residents of late, resulting in several threadnaughts within theCitadel forums and several diplomatic incidents within intel and other channels.  However Equinox Daedalus, CVA executor, spoke on the issue in a recent forum debate ...

1. The rule is that there is no ratting capitals allowed.
2. If you do not like this rule there is thousands of systems in eve that do not have this rule, so you are free to go there, and rat in carrier to your hearts delight.
3. No one has given a single reason WHY carrier ratting is better which is what the title of this thread seems to be about, it is only a place where people complain because they are "not" allowed to do something.
4. Faction/Pimp fittings are allowed (although quite useless most of the time)....i'd perfer people use common sense but well, when we have 7 pages of thread about ratting carriers i guess that is in short supply.
5. If you do not like this policy you have 3 options, convinve me personally why they are better, and thus should be allowed, kick cva out of providence and establish your own policies, or find a place to go rat in carrier unmolested.
~ Equinox Daedalus


There are a number of reasons behind the ban.

1) Carriers aren't efficient, BS can easily out earn carriers when it comes to running anomalies.
2) Capital Kills carry significant trophy value to roaming hostiles, even beyond expensive faction ships.  Their loss also tends to affect the general morale of the area.  The loss goes beyond just the financial loss of the pilot but includes the morale loss to the organization that the pilot belongs to.
3) Ratting capitals attract attention.  Hostiles will camp systems which routinely have capitals ratting in them.  This affects not only the capital pilot but all the other pilots in the region who use that system to rat..
4) Tackled capitals attract lemmings.  When capitals get tackled often people will charge into attempt to save it, unorganized and unequipped to deal with what is holding the capital down.  Many experienced roaming commanders will tell of their favorite fights where they tackled a few carriers and managed to kill several times the carriers value of people trying to rescue them.

Some people have asked about sitting on POS shields and assigning fighters, claiming they are perfectly safe.  Potentially they are, assuming they can react and get within the shields in under ten seconds.  DDs have been reported to follow capitals inside pos shields of the doomsday has spooled up before they enter, which can take as little as ten seconds.

So what happens when we catch capitals ratting in Providence?  Generally we tell them to stop and dock up.  We also will inform their CEO.  If they refuse or it becomes a habit we may be forced to ask the person or corporation to leave the area.  Attacking the ratting capitals ourselves remains a final but potentially valid option.

In Short, ratting in capitals is inefficent and attracts attention we don't want, as a result the practice is banned.  Despite the ban it still happens.  While we generally use diplomacy to stop it we are not above using force as a deterent or punishment for the continued practice.  Assuming hostiles don't beat us to the punch.  Providence tends to lose at least three to four ratting carriers a month.  While people man not like this rule, it will not be changing anytime soon.

This Article brought to you by CVA Leadership, written by Rovern Hashu

88 comments:

  1. "Despite the ban it still happens. While we generally use diplomacy to stop it we are not above using force as a deterent or punishment for the continued practice. Assuming hostiles don't beat us to the punch."

    Does this mean that you help the reds in trying to kill a ratting carrier instead of first going to the Diplo route?
    The reason i ask is due to a post from Sollana in Citadel (a known unsecure channel) when reds where only a few jumps away in R-3....Not posted once but twice.

    "18:33:30] Sollana > yf carrier ratting in 1-1 in anomaly MLZ-208"

    then in case there was a mistake....

    [18:33:48] ******** > goons catching up mp worries
    [18:33:49] ******** > R3 spike
    [18:33:50] ******** > goon fleet location?
    [18:33:52] ******** > no blue inel jesus christ
    [18:33:55] ******** > OMG
    [18:33:56] ******** 6-OQJV clear
    [18:34:02] Sollana > Sollana > yf carrier ratting in 1-1 in anomaly MLZ-208


    Seems like Diplo was ignored and it went straight to "lets get the carrier killed by reds delibertly!"

    I've read the CVA post on ratting in carriers and the answer EQ gave before your quote was ...

    "well after initally finding out someone is ratting in capital ship, we generally approach the ceo of the corp /exec of alliance/ member who was ratting and inform him that its against policy. at this time it is noted that you can and may lose standings as a corp/alliance/individual and may lose acess to intel channels as well as eventually possibly becoming kos to cva. (i don't say that directly "kos" is the result, as i would perfer people understand the rules.)

    Individuals who are warned and found to repeat offensive are asked to leave providence. Thier corp is asked to kick said individual. If corps refuse alliance is asked to remove corp, and if alliance refuses eventually someone can/may be set kos, but thats ultimately the "final" solution."..
    BY EQ

    Seems Sollana forgot this and the no blue intel and the NRDS policy where we don't try to kill other blues...

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    Replies
    1. I believe the diplomatic route was tried, including direct communication with the pilot in question who basically responded with a "F%ck off" response.

      Delete
    2. In the meantime. those that still want to hold true to CVA's traditions we are now reforming into CVA. (that's right, CVA dot). We will be forming fleets to the new kittycats doctrine because hellcats were too hot. We are also going back to lowsec because 0.0 only looks like a face on paper, and is really an evil supercap.

      Delete
  2. People who break the rules, then bitch and moan when they are called out for breaking them need to leave Providence...you guys are annoying and ruin the gameplay for everyone else.

    Thanks Sollana for saving the coalition yet another embarassing loss by so outraging these guys the FINALLY got safe. Amarr Victor!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Be Anom
    Be Ratting in carrier
    Be Called out by CVA director
    Be Retarded

    End

    ReplyDelete
  4. http://i.imgur.com/hw8Qd.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  5. I believe the diplomatic route WAS attempted in this instance first. When the arrogant carrier pilot refuses to comply with the rules when he was informed of them via convs, even though they are in our MOD's, the matter was escalated. Sollana, I salute you!

    ReplyDelete
  6. So let me get this straight:
    1. Because the idiots in YF can't read intel and get their carrier blown up, everyone in Providence gets the shaft.
    2. I can't live in NRDS space and rat in the carrier that I spent my hard earned isk on in a game I play $15/mo on.

    I like your NBSI policies CVA. Please tell me more how you are true to NRDS.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shouldn't that be IBSI ? Please tell me more about how you like to fail troll and can't even be clever enough to be accurate...

      It's only YF's fault THIS time...loads of other retards in Provi also get their carriers blown up for years.

      Delete
  7. When did CCP remove Common Sense to level five as a prerequisite for getting into capitals?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If common sense was ever a requirement, let's face it - we wouldn't ever have this problem in Providence.

      Delete
  8. What is with all these Faildari ratting ships?

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  9. To the flaming retard in the first post:

    Sollana did the right thing. Go die.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Ladel TeravadaSeptember 6, 2012 12:01 AM
      To the flaming retard in the first post:

      Sollana did the right thing. Go die"

      OMG...really?...and you put your name to this and say its ok to post blues on a known unsecure channel with exact location to prove a point and try to get them killed?
      Hmmm...lets see....if i posted a roaming fleet composition and exact location on citadel, what would happen to me i wonder?
      Oh..i got it...i'd be called a spy, asked to leave my corp, be turned KOS and asked to leave Providence.
      Is there a difference to that and what Sollana did?..don't think so.
      Seems CVA has no rules it follows and then those rules it makes others follow.

      As to diplo route already taken then why wasn't he asked to leave his corp/Providence or turned Kos as a last resort as in EQ's post.

      Delete
    2. OMG your comment is soooo TOTALLY right! OMG OMG

      Let's see, if I use sarcasm when I make this response and ask I a lot of stupid questions...will that make me ubar?

      Of course with how slow everything moves in TheCitadel there is always time to ask Goonswarm to reroute while we exile said retards instead of improvising, so of course your comment so OMG so valid.

      Delete
  10. I'm a carrier only pilot, Are you effectively banning me from providence, or dictating that I stay docked?
    I rat in between pvp operations, and watch intel like a hawk (How else can I know when the next pvp is up! ). I'm safer than the majority of ratters, and no red has seen me in my ratting fit. Why am I no longer allowed to rat in the same systems I slaved my arse to get back from Reds?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You shouldn't even be in Providence.

      Delete
    2. Yes. Please go away.

      Or get a ratting BS, dick the carrier, and quit being a pile of whine.

      Delete
  11. "I'm a carrier only pilot, Are you effectively banning me from providence, or dictating that I stay docked?"

    Yes they are. Unless u are in their fleet doing PVP with a carrier. Apparently thats all a carrier can be used for.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Carriers have lots of uses that don't involve PVE, primarily as logistics vehicles, moving fitted and rigged ships around. As Logistics monsters to repair ships or outposts. And of course your pvp, (although what your pvping in your carrier with RnK running around I don't know). The problem is ratting in carrier has a negative affect on other people who use the same space by drawing attention. That affect is compounded when a capital is loss. Reds aren't your only concern either as http://kb.cva-eve.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=244887 and http://kb.cva-eve.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=244888 sadly demonstrate. Considering the people most likely to jump you almost all use neutral or awox alts these days, being prepared to warp out when reds come isn't going to keep you safe. The rewards of carrier ratting just are not worth the risks. On top of that they are inefficient in the first place compared to properly set-up battleships. Your not banned from providence, your asked to not use your carriers in anomalies and belts.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So basically we can't trust any1 in Providence and we have to be prepared to lose any ship as awoxers are everywhere?

      Well, welcome to EvE then.

      Isn't this game motto, "welcome to the sandbox"?

      Also the links you posted total 6bil loss in 2 nightmares and a carrier is only 1.2bil loss. Also this was a once off as the awoxer is now red and a one trick pony which can happened to any1, anywhere; Be it a mining fleet and 10 hulks with orca support, or a fleet staging at a gate.

      Its what we pay a monthly subscription to be able to fly what we like and do what we like.

      How can 2xnm losses totalling 6bil be less signifigent than a carrier loss?
      Your logic is flawed here i'm afraid.

      Delete
    2. My logic isn't flawed as your making the assumption the only losses incurred is ISK. Which I believe was made clear in the article that we feel is not the case. While I admit teh faction BS can be significantly more expensive than capital (people overtank way too much personally), the feeling is that with expensive faction fits, the not financial loss are significantly lower than with capitals.

      Delete
  13. I have zero gunnery and zero missile skills, but I'm sure I can be btter in a BS. Thanks for your words of wisdom. Do you have any fits that will work?

    Also never lost a carrier ratting yet, been doing it for 2 years now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually If you run a smart-bomb BS and work with another person in a turret bs, can make up to 90 mil an hour each running forsaken rally points.

      Delete
    2. with a thanny running 14 fighters, and a loki to kill small stuff up to BC, I can bring in 35m ticks on both of them, equalling 210m/hour or 105m each / hour.

      Delete
    3. I'll admit i've not heard numbers like that before.

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    4. Also what anomalies are you running, if your using stats from outside of Providence your argument is moot.

      Delete
    5. Running forsaken hubs then normal hubs, 1 of each in a cycle.

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    6. Bull is in that shit.

      Delete
  14. "In Short, ratting in capitals is inefficent and attracts attention we don't want, as a result the practice is banned."

    I hope this means people being idiots will be banned? They are inefficient and attract attention we don't want.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You do it the same way as carrier pilots. First time they do something stupid, tell them off, second time, speak with CEO / alliance. Third time they get KOS.

      As you posted above, your not above using force to sort pilots out.

      Delete
    2. I think the problem isn't as much people being idiots, but people thinking they are not idiots and arguing with the rules very arrogantly failing to see their purpose. How do we ban people like you?

      Delete
  15. Back to the first reply on this issue.

    Has Sollana been punished for posting exact blue intel in Citadel intel channel and if so what action was taken against him?

    As a further poster correctly stated that had it been any1 else they would at least been banned from Citasel channel and at most called a spy and turned KOS.

    I'm not getting involved in the whole "carrier or not carrier ratting" debate but am interested on the following of rules and procedures by CVA.
    Clearly this was not a followed action and put a fellow blue at risk (even if he was in a carrier or not).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rules are made to be broken...BY THE ONES WHO MAKE THE RULES. Don't like it? Good luck finding anything different in EVE.

      Delete
  16. Help, Help I'm being repressed! Frankly if someone rats and dies I prefer the "so be it" approach. they rat, they run the risk, its their risk and if they get caught that is tough love enough imho. I rat mostly in my T3 and if I get really bored I will log my alt on and park my carrier with its butt just enough out of the pos shield so I can assign fighters to my T3 A practice I don't plan to change.
    Providence is a Coalition of many Alliances, so unless my CEO talks to me and that comes from "MY" alliance leadership then really I'll take on board the above opinion and that is about it. I thinks its high time we all treated each other as equals.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_1bzaj2fw

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. equal retards you mean? I hope your carrier gets doomsdayed dumb ass

      Delete
    2. The problem is not with people assigning fighters from a POS, it's dumbasses who.park their carrier in the anom.

      That said, all the sov alliances in provi are equals, just CVA is first among equals.

      Don't like it, take provi from CVA, HTFU, or move on.

      Delete
  17. Someone asked for a ratting fit; The one i'm linking was the one i used there to run Forsaken Rally Points, it's not a expensive fit and u can ( as stated before by Rovern ) easily make around 90 mill per hour.

    http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13784392

    Ratting in carriers is probably the dumbiest things everyone can do, is not eficient if you compare it to BS and ven more dumbiest if we talking about Provi since is always loaded with Red activity.

    cheers

    ReplyDelete
  18. Are rorquals banned? What about orcas? Can I mine in my carrier? What about bait carriers?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. WTB bm to idiots mining in carriers....

      Delete
  19. It seems that some basic thing is overseen here, NRDS.
    Not Red Don't Shoot.
    I myself think its not wise to use a carrier in a transit route.
    However the freedom is taken away by dictatership not by a dialog as mature poeple in RL would have done.
    I think if a pilot losses a carrier its not the RED's that did a it, its the pilot that din't pay attention to his seroundimg systems, carrier is slow so if RED's ar whitin 3 jumps i move to POS and logg off so if they enter the system there is no carrier on D-scan just a SB.
    Other thing its logic if a pilot losses a carrier or whatever cap do to him not paying attention or not even has the intel in place a few systems out.
    I myself if I was head off my alliance i would tell that pilot that 1st time it was a hard lesson the seccond time he/she is not allowed to fly it anymore as i agree in that point he/she puts fellow alliance members and other friendly's that ar in or space at a higher risk of RED's comming to camp the systems we atm ar holders of.
    This is my personal note tho.
    Finely my last remark by inforsing this as a rul the freedom and a fine line has been broken NRDS - and the idie behind it has died.

    Greatings fly safe

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 100% agree with you there

      Delete
  20. there are anoms that cant be tanked by any battleship such as sanctums and the like.. for those of us who can fly carriers should we have to sell them for the billions of isk theyre worth to fit battleships and run more than one char at a time to complete the anoms and make the same amount of isk per hour? youd rather us fly two shiney 3 billion isk golems dual boxing then fly a carrier which can and do complete forlorns quicker and more efficient than any single battleship in provi??.. if a golem gets pointed it dies if a carrier gets pointed it lives. if your too stupid to pay attention to your intel and safe up when asked you deserve to loose the ships your in battleship carrier or frigate it doesnt matter. the AFK cloaking camper assholes do leave the systems they camp eventually and theyve always been a part of this game and always will be a part of this game no matter what stupid ass rule is in place. they were here before the no carrier rule and will still be here once the rule is in place. and to be honest id much enjoy popping the r3 defence fleet if they are ordered to come and remove me of my carrier.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are no anoms a good pilot cannot tank in Providence without a carrier...if YOU can tank them, train better skills and stop crying about rules you can't control. You are not special.

      Delete
    2. I use to run sanctums a lot when they were spawning in Providence, could easly solo them with a ab fit abaddon. After they were basically stripped from providence I really haven't looked at them since but I wasn't aware that they had been changed (I know all the anomalies below havens got buffed but was under the impression sanctums/havens weren't changed). If that is still the case than you can easily tank a Sanctum in a Beam abaddon and come out with about 15 mil a tick.

      Also, if a golem gets pointed it dies yes, if a carrier gets pointed it very likely eventually dies, as well as the twenty lemmings who warp in one by one trying to save it.

      Delete
    3. Just to make things clear ratting in Carriers in providance is stupid and dumb in IMO. But that is mine and mine alone. I dont force this on other or they will learn one way or another.


      But hese twenty lemmings you talk about - did you train them? Are they in your Corp? Are they in your alliance? Did you tell them what can happen if they try to help a carrier thats in trouble and what will be the most likly end result? Are these twenty lemmings you talk about in a fleet and well trained. Don't know do you? You are not responcible for these lemmons. I bet and hope these twenty lemmons learned a lesson. So some people no matter what rules you put in place will not learn unless they loss ships. Some learn fast make the adjustment - some take longer - Some just get mad, stay stupid and leave providance still mad and no smarter than when they first came here. Yes its sad and it happens but you did not take the risk. A hot iron will burn your hand if you put your hand on it. You tell people if you do it you will get burned. An then someone, who you like to call lemmings, does it and get burned for all to see.

      So lets take this to another step. We just saw awhile ago a Lemon -->>> CVA Blob <<<-- lead by a bigger lemon --->>>>> Sollana <<<<-- form up to take on Rooks and Kings. Look like CVA got burned. I bet next time you see them you give them a wide birth or you will have better tactics and better trained FC to deal with them. Or you just make a stupid rule that No one in Providance is to attack Rooks and Kings or you will be ask to leave and make KOS. So Does CVA now avoid Rooks and Kings - does Sollana learn from this or does CVA ban him from being an FC.

      We all make mistakes - we all must learn from them. NRDS is a basic way to fly and respect others in your space to enjoy freedoms to do as one please as long as he doesn't attack others. The --->>>> FREEDOM <<<-- to fly unmolested by neut and blue who except NRDS and not be dictated what ship or race of ship one want to fly with the hard earned ISK one makes. Others will say well is just another way of NBSI or you dont understand. NRDS mean alot in many ways to many people. In the end it is your space and you do what you please and one must follow your rules.

      But understand this. Today it is who are making people who fly carriers - which they pay with their own ISK - Which they choose to risk to make more ISK - A Kill On Site Offence if they dont stop when someone rats them out to CVA for doing it and they dont stop. REALLY? Next is factions Battle ship - what next? Only time will tell. You are tring to be responcible for things you truly are not responcible for. I want smart pilots around who will listen to reason and learn from others mistakes. But I bet you dont have any children Rovern Hashu. For if you did you would start to realize how stupid this rule is. Flame away CVA RETARDS.

      Delete
    4. I agree with this 100%, Just about sums up the whole situation.

      Delete
    5. A lemming isn't a lemmon . . . Its actually a rodent and is a term used as a metaphor "in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences." IE a bunch of people who follow each other one by one to 'rescue' a tackled capital. Sadly the actions of really any resident of Providence tends to reflect back onto CVA even when there is no relation. Its something that after many years we have come to understand we can not avoid. Your analogy with sollana, while interesting fails to perform. Mostly because while with the Rooks and Kings Scenario, both sides are actively attempting to come in conflict and we have no hope of control over the actions of RnK. Ratting in Capitals on the other hand is significantly more controlable, as the rats aren't going to leave their anomalies and belts and hunt the carriers.

      IF they only losses involved with the loss of a ratting capital ship was held BY the capital pilot, we wouldn't feel the need to ban the practice. HOWEVER we feel the very action of using capitals to rats endangers others around the capital. We also feel that the non-financial losses (such as negative morale for blues and morale boost for the killers) are major factors. Despite the lack of what would seem logical we feel the affects of capital losses are significantly greater than that of a simple faction ship, even if the faction ship and fit may be, monetarily, greater than the capital.

      In short if it only affected the capital pilot, we wouldn't give a shit. But we feel the affects go beyond just he pilot for numerous reasons and in numerous ways, most of which were outlined in the article.

      Delete
    6. Amen! agree 100% with this

      Delete
  21. Little boy - you have just been trolled. Justifying your word with a wall of text = YOUR BUTT IS HURT!! Sollana getting bested by Rooks and Kings = HAND GOT BURNED BY THE IRON! Learn from it. Anyone who been around anytime knows real CVA members doesn't care what other thinks or even take the time to respond to it. Now you say CVA cares = Oxymoron!

    Aralis / Lonewolfnight use to go around to people vent and team speak channel and get to know the neutrals in your space. They flew in there fleets. They teach as well as listen. They were not Elitest. Maybe you should take a clue to this. Know your people. You don't. You spend your time reading forums and being a troll. You have taken Aralis place of leader of Imperial Dream. Act like it. Don't worry what other say. For if you dont, the time you spend reponding to mine and others like me who troll, you will loose touch with not only your members but Provi's neut's as well. Let's see if you can learn?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Well, seems i have a 50/50 support/hate my actions.

    have i been repremanded by my CEO? YES.

    would i perform the same action again? YES.

    Why? because although the carrier is paid for by the ratter, its the poor folks that get killed in the process of red gangs roaming nearby waiting for that carrier to fail and get caught.

    Rooks and Kings, yes not a good moment, but to be honest I salute them on there tactics, one I have not encountered before. I'm ready for them next time...

    Provi has never been about quality thou, its always about quantity. :P

    Im here for the security of Providence and tbh I dont care if people like my methods, im a "retard", good, makes others more "retarded".

    I will return and god help you all :P

    Sollana

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    Replies
    1. Wait, so you actually think that if there were no carriers ratting in Providence nobody would roam here? What a magical happy world you must live in.

      Frankly though? What you did, in reporting a blue carrier into Citadel, which you know is populated by red spies, is an utter travesty to NRDS that you claim to support.

      I am incredibly angered that you haven't been booted from CVA and been set red. You can try take the moral high ground and say you were doing it to enforce this bullshit rule, But at the heart of it, It's the actions of a petty, vicious little person who has gotten FAR beyond the position they're developmentally and emotionally ready for.

      Telling people what they're allowed to fly and not allowed to fly is the antithesis to NRDS, why not just swap CVA and Providence over to NBSI and quit pretending?

      As to you being "ready" for rooks and kings next time? Frankly I hope there isn't a next time, anyone with a lick of sense wouldn't get within 5 jumps of your fleets, you seem to get a hardon for killing blues.

      and, Sollana to be quite honest I don't think you're a retard, I just think you're in a position you're clearly not ready for. You should probably let the adults handle things from here on out.

      Delete
  23. Is this place becoming the next Kugutsmen?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, Kugu people are actually good posters for the most part. This is 50/50 mix of people trying to make a point and those trolling.

      Delete
  24. In my veiw this less about carriers and more about the attitude of CVA, you are breaking the principles on which CVA was formed by Aralis. Treating holders as pets and slagging people who fly in support of you. Good long term planning NOT.

    You can really no longer call your self NRDS as it was conceived.

    ReplyDelete
  25. When you took SOV as a holder you accepted these rules. EVEN WHEN ARALIS was here these rules were in place. You are naive to think that things have changed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Got a source to back that up?

      Delete
    2. He can nit back it up - He's full of it. This is a new rule. Before the fall of DG you could go around and find CVA all over ratting in carriers as well as other holders. But they were smart and didnt get caught by reds. Those that did paid a price. Learned or left provi mad.

      Now someone in CVA is all carebear and yanking EQ chain to make this stupid rule. But as alway the squeeky wheel get the oil.

      Delete
    3. CVA have been in an internal no ratting carrier rule almost since D-GTMI. At the very least there was an internal culture against it and an actual rule after I became alliance capital fleet manager over a year ago. When your surrounded by regions of hostile super-capital fleets, you tend to try to not give them juicy targets on large platters.

      Delete
    4. No, you just turn traitor and drop your own supers on Provi residents.

      Delete
    5. o.O Funny how as soon as I left capitals started dieing left and right isn't it. At least I didn't awox anyone . . .

      Delete
  26. The whole spirit of what Provi WAS has died with the implementation of this so called policy... along with the dumb ass policy of AMMAR only fleet OPs. Everyone in EVE knows if they want easy kills come to Provi and to fit for anti-ammar = easy kills for the KB junkies. Yeah real smart FC's <--- Sarcasm for the mentally impaired.

    Really a damn shame what the so called new guard of CVA (i.e. Equinox) has destroyed what many of the true founders worked so hard on creating that was so unique to Eve Online.

    Diversity is the Spice of life.
    -Old Timer

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    Replies
    1. What policy of Amarr only fleet Ops? None of our doctrines are amarr only, half are mostly amarrian (oracles/abaddons) but don't differ at all from what other 0.0 entities use.

      Delete
    2. Old timer. My guess, you never even bothered to read the new fleet doctrines, otherwise you would never have got your hackels up about the "amarr" only fleets - nagas....rokh...

      No, you are are the type of useless schlub, who spends his time bitching about fleet doctrines "forcing" you to fly a ship you don't like.

      The only thing you probably had a hand in founding, is the type of useless, obstinant, entitled, pure scrub-fit crappyness that pervades the ranks of provi who think ratting carriers are jesus to pve.

      Next thing you are going to tell me: faction guns are the bees knees.
      :Yeah: that was sarcasm old timer...maybe time for you to retire, Eve might be too much for you.

      Delete
  27. I'd wager that a large majority of people against carriers just can't get the anoms fast enough, because there is a carrier ripping through them.
    Most carrier pilots will be able to feild a BS, and have bs level 5, so still rip through them faster than you. Your not gaining anything by banning the carriers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd wager you are a dumbass.

      Delete
    2. id wager your a yankee

      Delete
  28. Who gives a crap about people losing their OWN ships that is their choice and or stupidity to do so. So you say it brings alot of unwanted attention and red fleets to area and causes problems. Lets imagine the land of perfect and there are no more reds...how many people would be staying and enjoying providence.

    You need the bad to ENJOY the good and that goes with everything in life. If your so concerned about the influx of reds coming into prov why would you make a dumb ass decision that is going to hurt and divide those that protect the providence area. Its not the issue about the carriers that has everyone pissed its the principal that you are attacking the ideology of a blue or neutrals freedom in this space.

    Regardless of your corp or alliance and or standing if you attack someone blue or neutral that is minding their own business ratting, period. You are going against NRDS and the belief of every neutral or blue pilots freedom in providence and I will be forced to attack you under the belief of what is right.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I would seriously like to see the CVA pussies try to force out some of the bigger alliances in Provi. The PVP possibilities if Provi goes up in flames would be great.

    If CVA cannot abide by the NRDS rule then why should anyone else. I know that if CVA attacks one of my corp/alliance mates then it will be on. It wouldn't take much for any alliance in Provi to switch allegiances to -A-, RnK or any other Sov Empire (except Goons/Test and pets cause we all hate them) and setup the CVA cap fleet for a Super hotdrop.

    So stop your sabre-rattling CVA and remember, the only reason no other large alliance has tried taking Sov in Provi is because nobody wants it - but if we offer you up on a platter then........

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    2. @ 10:13 comment

      If your going to make threats using my alliance than you need to fess up to who you are.

      Delete
  30. My Thoughts based upon what has been published and what is said in

    channels. so I appologise if I quote others without propper referencing. I

    don't spend much time in provi but I do watch a lot.


    I dont agree with individuals ratting in carriers. Yes it does bring reds

    to provi but they will come regardless, albeit with a slightly lower

    frequency.

    I believe carriers were created for logisticals purposes and if they are

    used in this manner then np.

    CVA via EQ made a statement 'Dont Rat in carriers or eventually you may get

    KOS. This was done (as far as I am aware) unilaterally, which in my humble

    eyes shows a level of disrespect and contempt to the 'collition' of holders

    in Provi. I expect this has annoyed quite a few people as well as indicate

    that if CVA don't like you they can KOS you which may be construed as bully

    boy tactics at best. Which many ppl who play eve will rile against as they

    are actually (for the most part) mature and have has RL experience.

    Can a diplomatic solution be found - yes.

    CVA have published a rule regarding carriers - Can this not be reprased as

    a Guideline?
    System holders can dictate how ppl fly in their system regarding THIS rule,

    so in CVA systems you do not rat in carriers, in non CVA systems you

    respect what they wish regarding this rule.

    I know, that this can open a bigger can of worms but I am not

    discussing/debating this. Just the carrier issue.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Backlash
    This may take many forms. Some ppl may leave. Some corps may leave. hell,

    even sov holders may leave. This would cause more problems - the least of

    being Provi will lose a substantial part of it's defense fleets as well as

    the indy aspects for indexes etc. Which in turn will hurt more peoples

    pockets than a carrier loss. Can those that are left then hold provi? I am

    quite new to the game (YES it is still a GAME) so I can not comment on

    this.

    The perceptions reading these posts and other blogs is that CVA have made a

    stand. Be it to move from under the legacy Arialas or it has been a knee

    jerk reaction to internal pressure is no longer a concern. The issue is

    that pride may be getting in the way. CVA retracting will probobly be

    political suicide and unlikely to happen. CVA, imo, need a face saving way

    out of this. Instead of flaming, ppl in provi should be addressing the

    potential issue of provi falling and discuss why it got to this state

    afterwards. I think the reds are just rubbing their hands in anticipation

    right now.

    Speaking of reds, they appear to be mobilising around provi in a few

    discrete ways. and i suspect that ppl leaving Provi in droves, if that

    happens, will annoy them as they use Provi as a training ground for noobs.

    You know this is true.

    Anyways, there are a few ppl (on this post) that have suggested that provi

    may become NBSI. I think NRDS is a greater challange and will adhere to

    this. IMO a few others actually think that the dictatorial stance by CVA is

    an endemic problem within the leadership within CVA and such stances will

    only have two outcomes - everyone rolls over or civil war. Both will be the

    end of provi as we know it. CVA has the ability to be the cement in provi

    which is laudable, but they are not and never will be the building blocks

    becasue that not who they are.

    It is up to clearer minds to sit back and try and avoid this.

    I know there will be a few of you that will flame this. That is your right.

    You are entitled to free speech. If you wish to point out things that are

    wrong or misconstrued then please do so.

    But remember your own rules about being respectful and not insulting people

    ? no name calling please because hypocrasy just sucks and once that line is

    crossed you have demonstrated that the next words you utter can not be

    trusted and needs to be examined.

    So in closing, IMO, the idea regarding carrier ratting appears sound but

    the implementation of said rule is not.

    CVA has the ability to be the cement in provi which is laudable and will

    always be a balancing act, but they are not and never will be the building

    blocks because that not who they are. Threatening an entire region of space

    under the NRDS flag smack massively or hypocrasy.

    Mind you, if the idea is to shake things up a bit, create news and

    conflict, this is a very very clever way of doing it and what a marketing

    tool for Dust514 - 'Come play in the Eve universe - real life without the

    bodies!' (yet?)

    Diogenes (of Sinope)

    'I maintain that all the artificial growths of society are incompatible

    with happiness and that morality implies a return to the simplicity of

    nature'

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have again been reading and would like to offer an appology and partial retraction regarding CVA as 'not builders'. After reading

      http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/Curatores_Veritatis_Alliance

      my opinion has changed slightly. CVA were the original builders.And a fine job they did too. Commitment, passion and the drive to succeed certainly showed through during those times.However, it now appears that this is no longer the case and that CVA may be resting a little on their laurals, with a very insular leadership, and an unacknowledge reliance on the current 'workmen' in Providence made up, on the whole, from other sov holders, friends and neuts. This in itself is not a problem, indeed, Provi people working together is what makes it tick. It is the arogance and in some case indifference to some CVA actions that make it difficult to understand.

      A question I would like to discuss:- 'Is the halcyon days of CVA past or can decadence be put aside and provi become greater than it has in the past?'

      Surely it is time for CVA, the Amarr Agents of Mercy, to rise to this challenge and lead by example to the uneducated masses and show them the Divine.

      Delete
  32. WOW!

    Boy I should of been paying more attention!

    This is CHZRIF... Although I don't play as much as most, I have been here longer than most. THIS IS BAD FORM 100%

    YES... CVA is a benevolent dictatorship. BUT...

    The #1 Rule is NRDS
    The #2 Rule is you can do what you want in our space as long as you follow rule number one, AND help remove people who break rule number one.
    The #3 Rule is you have to have permission to use planet, etc. in our space and who gets what is up to CVA leadership.
    The #4 Rule is DON'T shoot at blues, and DON'T give out blue INTEL!

    THESE ARE THE CVA BASICS STARTING FROM THE FOUNDING!

    We let nuetrals come in and as long as they follow NRDS they can pretty much do as they want. If someone wants to fly industrials into battle against Battleships so be it... LIVE and LEARN... If someone wants to fly Carriers into battle of any type EVEN IF STUPID so be it... LIVE and LEARN... It's their money to play this game, and it's their effort/isk that got them the ship they are flying...

    LOOSING A CARRIOR to a ROAMING FLEET, etc. HAS NO EFFECT ON MORAL... THE MORAL ISSUE ONLY COMES INTO EFFECT IN A WAR!
    LOOSING A CARRIOR to a ROAMING FLEET... Brings more reds to our area?, SO BE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I CALL BULLSHIT !
    (And those who know me know I don't use words like that often)

    As for those that rush in to save XXX ship of any kind and to it with poor intel... LIVE and LEARN
    I've made that mistake... LIVE and LEARN
    I used to fly in small gangs with little or no intel... I've made that mistake... LIVE and LEARN
    BUT telling your comrades what ships they can and can not fly on their own time... MISTAKE...LIVE and LEARN
    GIVE LOCATION INFORMATION THAT GETS BLUES KILLED.... (MAKES YOU KOS...) LIVE and LEARN

    (Where is our LEADERSHIP... Come on...)

    ( All this does is fragment CVA, and in a short time CVA will be no more! LIVE and LEARN )

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Chzrif, CVA itself has been under a no ratting carrier rule for well over a year now. We've had a long anti-ratting carrier tradtion which honestly has probably existed since at least D-GTMI. About a month ago Firestar requested that it be expanded to CVA space (specifically the QBL pocket). The recently ruling was interrupted to a region wide ban. We certainly aren't requiring people to follow rules that we ourselves don't follow.

      Delete
    2. Thank You for some clarification.

      Is the ban regarding carrier ratting Providnece wide OR only in CVA sov systems?

      Diogenes (of Sinope)

      Delete
    3. Equinox's recent statement which is quoted in the article was interupted as a region wide ban, and when asked to clarify (I needed to know for sure what I was passing on as a public information outlet) it was confirmed to be region-wide. NOW, from what I understand there is a Holder Exec meeting in the works sometime in the next week or two just to clarifying things amongst leadership and get everyone on the same page as obviously this was not handled very well.

      Delete
    4. Thank You for the information.
      Yes, I believe that it was interpreted in such a way.

      Let us hope that the Holder Exec meeting is much sooner than later and that a joint statement regarding this particular issue is released and consistant (with all the relavent details so there are no more interpretations) and give people hope that any future decisions of such a nature follow the Holder Exec meeting format before being released.

      Diogenes (of Sinope)

      Delete
  33. I have again been reading and would like to offer an appology and partial retraction regarding CVA as 'not builders'. After reading

    http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/Curatores_Veritatis_Alliance

    my opinion has changed slightly. CVA were the original builders.And a fine job they did too. Commitment, passion and the drive to succeed certainly showed through during those times.However, it now appears that this is no longer the case and that CVA may be resting a little on their laurals, with a very insular leadership, and an unacknowledge reliance on the current 'workmen' in Providence made up, on the whole, from other sov holders, friends and neuts. This in itself is not a problem, indeed, Provi people working together is what makes it tick. It is the arogance and in some case indifference to some CVA actions that make it difficult to understand.

    A question I would like to discuss:- 'Is the halcyon days of CVA past or can decadence be put aside and provi become greater than it has in the past?'

    Surely it is time for CVA, the Amarr Agents of Mercy, to rise to this challenge and lead by example to the uneducated masses and show them the Divine

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Curatores_Veritatis_Alliance_(Player_alliance) is more up to date than eve-history although evelopedia hasn't been updated in awhile either.

      Delete
  34. would just like to point out that even in PVP some pilots act stupidly and lose carriers...

    http://killalliance.co.uk/battle-reports/cant-undock-shouldnt-undock/

    So shouldn't these kind of losses more be prevented instead?

    ReplyDelete
  35. so when is this sov holders meeting taking place?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Well , well ! Ive spent the last week reading posts by the spineless (anonymous),the trolls,and of course the few with something constructive to say !

    This issue has nothing to do with being nrds or not , all community's change rules to fit the residents . The way the change has been handled by insults and personal attacks are one issue !

    Carrier rating brings perma camping reds , where as this has the slightest possibility of truth , doltans map with 5 - 10 k npc killed in a 48 hour period . Well im betting that brings the perma campers !

    Lemming's running to save a tackled carrier , well i cannot begin to count the number of times ive watched people jump threw one at a time or in pairs to save even a tackled drake and die , this is not the fault of the carrier , but rather the fault of said individuals training in pvp .

    What I have given you are facts , and undeniable . I rat in my carrier and can care less about the ticks . I have my reasons such as i pay for this game ,as well as others that are noneya ! But when I do , no one ever comes near it thats red . Instead of punishing the whole of provi and creating a forum that allows people to berate and insult others , come up with the proper sollution .

    If an alliance or corp has a carrier caught in anom , first time they get a edeucation warning . Meaning the leader teaches thier m8's how to be watchfull . Second one , they are simply told the next one you lose , please leave providence peacefully . Alot of us have earned the right to rat in em if we want , because we dont get caught , because they stayed and grinded thier ass's off while other ran to get provi back !

    This rule makes sense for some but not others , that means its not wrong to make but needs to be adjusted ! Punishing the strong for what the weak do , is poor leadership ! Not trying to be a troll just stateing a fact !

    hate me troll me i can care less ITS A GAME , PLAY TO WIN !

    Harry Eyeball
    slumdogs.


    ReplyDelete
  37. I can make more isk an hour with less risk using an Apoc than my Archon. I cant understand why people use them? if only to go "look at me, I have a carrier and I'm uber".

    Ryzig

    ReplyDelete
  38. I'm all for it. CVA's rationale for this rule makes total sense to me. I'm very highly character-skilled in flying certain carriers, so this isn't entirely irrelevant to me.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Things like this are what led my industrial oriented corp to leave north provi. We were told that if there were neutrals we needed a combat escort for mining/pi. We weren't getting losses, and giving sub-jita ships up on contract. Also we were told that we would have to pay a monthly "tax" to alliance ship reimbursement fund. We elected to leave the alliance, give up our 3 offices.. and go hi-sec. Where we can refine for free.. instead of refining all out materials at an alliance station and contributing by paying taxes.

    Arbitrary rules about what you can fly and when are an antithesis to NRDS, and resulted in at least 1 indy corp leaving provi.

    ReplyDelete

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